in Mathematical Logic retagged by
19,951 views
66 votes
66 votes

Consider the first order predicate formula $\varphi$:

$\forall x [ ( \forall z \: z | x \Rightarrow (( z=x) \vee (z=1))) \rightarrow \exists w ( w > x) \wedge (\forall z \: z | w \Rightarrow ((w=z) \vee (z=1)))]$

Here $a \mid b$ denotes that  $ ’a \text { divides } b’ $ , where  $a$ and $b$ are integers. Consider the following sets:

  • $S_1: \{1, 2, 3, \dots , 100\}$
  • $S_2:$ Set of all positive integers
  • $S_3:$ Set of all integers

Which of the above sets satisfy $\varphi$?

  1. $S_1$ and $S_2$
  2. $S_1$ and $S_3$
  3. $S_2$ and $S_3$
  4. $S_1, S_2$ and $S_3$
in Mathematical Logic retagged by
by
20.0k views

4 Comments

Prime numbers exists only for positive integers, because if we have included -ve numbers then -1 would have divided all number which violates the definition of prime numbers.

In above example let P=(∀zz∣x⇒((z=x)∨(z=1))  and Q =∃w(w>x)∧(∀zz∣w⇒((w=z)∨(z=1))) if P itself false fo -ve integers then no need to check for Q in above example for -ve integers P is itself false; So, P=false then P→ Q is always true.

So, from above explanation S3 must be valid option

S2 is is any way true since x and w are prime numbers and for positive integers prime number exists

S1 should be false. because for every prime number x there exist another prime number where x<y , so finite set option is wrong.

So answer → (C) S2 and S3 are true
0
0
So to check you have to check if for given Domain it is always true or not.

So you can broadly see this is of type (A→ B) → C  and for it to be true you should analyze what cases for A,B,C exists for which it can be true for example:

A           B          C

F          T/F        T

T            T          T

T            F         T/F

you should take each domain given and then check for A,B,C by cases as shown above if it is true then that domain is valid. I think you can check it in like 1 min or so, yeah done
0
0

visualization to understand what question asking

2
2

10 Answers

64 votes
64 votes
Best answer

Answer : Only S2 satisfies given formula $\psi.$ Hence, None of the options in correct. 

Wait, I know you might not agree with me, but read the whole answer first.


In all the other answers to this question, the interpretation that is given is "for every prime number(x) there exist another prime number(y) where x<y."

This interpretation is WRONG. 

Why is this interpretation wrong ?


Divisibility Definition :  If a and b are integers, a divides b if there is an integer c such that ac = b.

The notation a | b means that a divides b.

Hence, $5$ is divisible by $1,5,-1,-5.$ $1$ is divisible by $1,-1.$ 1 divides everything. So does −1.

General definition of Prime :  "An integer n > 1 is prime if its only positive divisors are 1 and itself. 

The first few primes are  2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, . . . .

An integer n > 1 is composite if it isn’t prime."

http://sites.millersville.edu/bikenaga/number-theory/divisibility/divisibility.pdf

https://primes.utm.edu/glossary/page.php?sort=Divides


Now, Take the following set as domain for the given formula $\psi$ : Set of All integers.

For Set of ALL integers, the given formula $\psi$ DOES NOT satisfy. Because for element $-1$ in the domain, $\psi$  will become false. See, for $x=-1$, first part will become true i.e. for $x =-1,$ (∀z  z∣x ⇒ ((z=x)∨(z=1)))   will become true because only $1,-1$ divides $-1$. But for $x=-1,$ 2nd part will become false. i.e. For $x=-1,$ There does not exist any number $w > -1$ in the domain such that that $w$ is divisible by only $w,1$ because every number is also divisible by -1, $-w$. So, for $x = -1,$ $\psi$ becomes false. Hence, $\psi$ is NOT satisfied by the set "Set of All integers."

Hence, Answer should be Only S2. But none of the options match (Doesn't mean that correct answer will change because options do not match..)


Correct interpretation :

Given predicate formula says "For every number $x$ in the domain, if $x$ is such that $x$ is divisible by only $1,x$ among all the elements in  the whole domain , then there exists some number $w > x$  in the domain such that $w$ is divisible by only $1,w$ among all the elements in  the whole domain.

Clearly, S2 satisfies $\psi.$ Neither $S1,S3$ satisfies $\psi.$


This comment might be helpful as well :

https://gateoverflow.in/302813/gate-cse-2019-question-35?show=405093#c405093 

edited by

4 Comments

 prime number (or a prime) is a natural number  greater than 1 that is not a product of two smaller natural numbers 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_number

 

so sir why are you considering x = -1 as in antecedent it is given that if x is a prime number then in consequent it is given that there exist a w > x 

 

if at all if x = -1 is not even a prime number why you jump to consequent part

 

correct me if I am wrong because mistakes are allowed today not in Exam

1
1

@THE_GODXX

The antecedent is NOT saying that $x$ is a prime number. 

The antecedent is: $ ( \forall z \: z | x \Rightarrow (( z=x) \vee (z=1)))$

Let’s call this antecedent as $A(x).$

Now, consider $S_3$ as the domain.

Does $x = 2$ satisfy $A(x)$ ?

Think about it.

The answer is, No. Because, consider $z= -1;$ So, we have $z | x$ But $z \neq 1$ and $z \neq x.$

Now, Read my answer again, without having preconceived opinion like “prime number” etc.. Because the word “prime" is not mentioned in the question anywhere. So, solve the questions by proper reasoning. 

3
3
You considered set of integers domain and saying that there does not exist any integer greater than -1. What about the positive integers. So i say s2 and s3 satisfies the given condition.
0
0
71 votes
71 votes

$\forall x[( \forall z\ z|x\Rightarrow((z=x) \lor (z=1)))\Rightarrow \exists w\ (w>x) \land (\forall z\ z|w\Rightarrow((w=z) \vee (z=1)))]$

Lets divide above statement into three parts:
1. $(\forall z\ z|x\Rightarrow((z=x) \lor (z=1)))$
2. $\exists w\ (w>x)$
3. $(\forall z\ z|w\Rightarrow((w=z) \lor (z=1))$

$\forall x[1\Rightarrow2\Rightarrow3]$

Meaning of each part:
1. If $x$ is PRIME this statement is TRUE
2. If there there exist a $w$ which is greater than $x$ this statement is TRUE
3. If $w$ is prime (Keep in mind $z$ is local here) this statement is TRUE

That means for every $x$ there exist a $w$ which is greater than $x$ and it is prime.

  • $S_1$ : FALSE. If $x=97$ then $101$ is not in the $S_1$
  • $S_2$ : TRUE
  • $S_3$ : TRUE. Negative cant be PRIME so statement $1$ is FALSE. Apply logic of implication, if $p$ is false in $p \Rightarrow q$, statement is TRUE.
edited by

15 Comments

Sir ,

A small doubt, it asks which of the following sets satisfy phi, and not , for which of the following sets it is valid.
0
0

what is the difference between them @Gaurav Parashar 1

1
1

@Digvijay Pandey sir  @Arjun sir I have one small doubt for statement like  (∀x  P(x) ⇒ Q(x) ) how should I interpret it wether we assume scope of  ∀x only to P(x) or also to Q(X). I get confused I have read somwehere quantifiers are having highest priority then all other logical connectives.

4
4
edited by

@Digvijay Pandey 

That means for every x there exist a w which is greater than x and it is prime.

No, this is not the correct interpretation for the given predicate formula. 

This interpretation will become false for the following set : $Set \,\,of\,\, all\,\, even\,\,  \,\, numbers \,\, greater \,\, than \,\, 2 $ i.e. $ S = \{ 4,6,8,...... \}$ 

For set $S$ above, the interpretation "for every $x$ there exist a $w$ which is greater than $x$ and it($w$) is prime" will return false.  But for this set $S$, given predicate formula $\psi$ will be True.


Correct interpretation :

Given predicate formula says "For every number $x$ in the domain, if $x$ is such that $x$ is divisible by only $1,x$ among all the elements in  the whole domain , then there exists some number $w > x$  in the domain such that $w$ is divisible by only $1,w$ among all the elements in  the whole domain.


In all the other answers to this question, the interpretation that is given is "for every prime number(x) there exist another prime number(y) where x<y."

This interpretation is WRONG. 

Why is this interpretation wrong ?


Divisibility Definition :  If a and b are integers, a divides b if there is an integer c such that ac = b.

Hence, $5$ is divisible by $1,5,-1,-5.$ $1$ is divisible by $1,-1.$ 1 divides everything. So does −1.

Standard(General) definition of Prime :  "An integer n > 1 is prime if its only positive divisors are 1 and itself. 

The first few primes are  2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, . . . .

An integer n > 1 is composite if it isn’t prime."

http://sites.millersville.edu/bikenaga/number-theory/divisibility/divisibility.pdf

https://primes.utm.edu/glossary/page.php?sort=Divides


Now, Take the following set as domain for the given formula $\psi$ : Set of All integers.

For Set of ALL integers, the given formula $\psi$ DOES NOT satisfy. Because for element $-1$ in the domain, $\psi$  will become false. See, for $x=-1$, first part will become true i.e. for $x =-1,$ (∀z  z∣x ⇒ ((z=x)∨(z=1)))   will become true because only $1,-1$ divides $-1$. But for $x=-1,$ 2nd part will become false. i.e. For $x=-1,$ There does not exist any number $w > -1$ in the domain such that that $w$ is divisible by only $w,1$ because every number is also divisible by -1. So, for $x = -1,$ $\psi$ becomes false. Hence, $\psi$ is NOT satisfied by the set "Set of All integers."

Hence, Answer should be Only S2. But none of the options match (Doesn't mean that correct answer will change because options do not match..)


Moreover, in the answer(above), you have divided the given formula in three parts. But it is not so. 2nd and 3rd part are not individual but it makes one part as a whole. $\exists w$ in the 2nd part is applied on whole remaining formula i.e. the scope of $\exists w$ is the whole remaining formula (to the right). 

  So, the given formula is basically $\forall x [1 \rightarrow 2]$ 

where $2$ is : $ \exists w ( w > x) \wedge (\forall z \: z \mid w \Rightarrow ((w=z) \vee (z=1))) $

Here $1$ says "$x$ is a divisible by only 1,$x$ in the whole doamin" 

$2$ says "There exists a $w > x$ which is also divisible by only 1,$w$ in the whole domain "

So, whole formula interprets as "For every number $x$ in the domain, if $x$ is divisible by only $1,x$ among all the elements in  the whole domain , then there exists some number $w > x$  in the domain such that $w$ is divisible by only $1,w$ among all the elements in  the whole domain.


@Akanksha Agrawal

Whatever you have read, is not wrong. But whenever an author writes a book, he describes some conventions that he'll be using throughout the book and so all the examples and questions in that particular book should be interpreted as per those conventions. So, what you said is a convention followed by Keneth rosen, in order to use less number of parentheses or brackets to make the expression look nice and not too much crowded. 

But different authors may opt for different conventions. Here in the question, I think they have followed the convention that the scope of a quantifier is as long as you can take, until a closing parentheses occurs for that quantifier. (this convention was used in one of the courses I took in IISc.. Professor in the beginning described that this convention he'll be following).

Like in the part $1,$ $"( \forall "$ means that now until you find a closing parentheses to this opening parentheses, it will be scope of $\forall z$ quantifier. Similarly, For $\exists w$ , there is no opening parentheses for $\exists w$ because they intend to make its scope the whole remaining expression, so they did not need to put opening parentheses for $\exists w.$ 

Ideally, in GATE exam, they should give the expression in proper parentheses. 

Most of the times, you will find GATE questions to be properly framed. 

Now, How do we know that the quantifiers in this question has the scope as described above and not according to the convention followed by Kenneth rosen ? 

That's because Assume that you follow Kenneth rosen's conventions then $\exists w$ will have scope only til $(w > x) $ i.e. $\exists w (w > x)$ is one whole part and $\exists w$ won't have any scope any further. But then what is $w$ in the remaining part i.e. $ (\forall z \: z \mid w \Rightarrow ((w=z) \vee (z=1)))  $ ??

Here, in the remaining part $w$ will be a free variable and hence, we CAN NOT interpret the given formula $\psi$ until/unless we are provided with the interpretation of $w.$ Similarly for $\forall z$ in the part $1$ and $forall z $ in the part 2. 


I'd again say that in GATE most questions are framed unambiguously and this question should have been framed in a better way by providing proper parentheses....But one can "understand the convention" followed by the question setter by looking at the formula. So, Technically there is no ambiguity But still it should have been framed in better way.

Refer my answer here for few more details : 

https://gateoverflow.in/302813/gate2019-35?show=328427#a328427

42
42
thank you sir, nice explaination
0
0

@techbd123 @Satbir @chirudeepnamini @ankitgupta.1729

Help me with this question, please.

My question is why it has to be prime?

What's wrong with $\mathbf{\dfrac{4}{4}}$

2
2
edited by

@`JEET

A number is a prime iff it is divisible only by itself and 1(and not any other number)

 for example 5 is a prime because it is divisible by only 1,5.

But 4 is not because it is divisible by 1,2,4.(it has a divisor other than 1 and 4)

The first statement is given as "for all z,z divides x implies either z is equal to x or z is equal to 1."

"z divides x" is equivalent to "x is divisible by z".

so rewrite this as "for all z,x is divisible by z implies either z is equal to x or z is equal to 1."​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

which is clearly definition of prime ,

let me know if you have any doubt..

Edit:

The proper definition of prime numbers:

An integer n > 1 is prime if its only positive divisors are 1 and itself

6
6
Yes, that was the standard definition of prime.

Wasn't coming to my mind.

Thanks.
2
2
edited by

A number is a prime iff it is divisible only by itself and 1(and not any other number)

What do you mean by "number" here?.. An integer or natural number or real number or positive integer..?

for example 5 is a prime because it is divisible by only 1,5.

5 is also divisible by $-1,-5.$ Hence, according to your definition of prime number above, $5$ is Not a prime number.


Divisibility Definition :  If a and b are integers, a divides b if there is an integer c such that ac = b.

Hence, $5$ is divisible by $1,5,-1,-5.$ $1$ is divisible by $1,-1.$ 1 divides everything. So does −1.

General definition of Prime :  "An integer n > 1 is prime if its only positive divisors are 1 and itself.

An integer n > 1 is composite if it isn’t prime."

http://sites.millersville.edu/bikenaga/number-theory/divisibility/divisibility.pdf


For this question, Only S2 satisfies the given first order logic formula $\psi.$

Refer here my comment :

https://gateoverflow.in/302813/gate2019-35?show=327668#c327668

8
8

@chirudeepnamini
You described correctly. 👍

1
1

@Deepakk Poonia (Dee)

I don't think there is any "standard" definition for prime numbers. We commonly use prime numbers for positive integers.

Definitions depend on context. In the answer, it is written that "negative can't be prime" but  A negative integer can also be a prime in the context of ring theory of abstract algebra. Here, definition of prime numbers is different. For example, considering the ring of integers $\mathbb{Z}$, "$-5$" is a prime number because its divisiors are $+5,-5,+1,-1$ where  $+1,-1$ are units of ring.

0
0
I meant "General" definition that we mostly use in mathematics and in number theory. I had written "General" in the bracket.. I have removed the term "standard" .

But it doesn't matter. What I wanted to point out is that the given formula is NOT satisfied by the S3 set which all the other answers and even the final GATE answer key are saying otherwise.
2
2

@Deepakk Poonia (Dee) sir

I also checked it above formula is not satisfying for -1.I didn't noticed it even though any one didn't noticed it till now.

Thank you sir.

1
1
Had your basics been more strong,  it would have been good, but anyhow

Here is an excerpt from IIT ROPAR.

 

 

$\forall [f \Rightarrow g ] \Rightarrow ( \forall f\Rightarrow \forall g)$
1
1
that’s a great explanation. but just a doubt, is it correct to force our knowledge on the given propositional statement. it is nowhere said that the give sentence(or propositional statement) is also the definition of prime numbers or for negative x , w should also be divisible by -1 (since it is not so you said that for set S3 the given proposition is not valid) . whether or not x is negative, both the properties(z=x or z=1) is true if x is of such nature, and same goes for w if w>x. Pls verify what i have said.
0
0
22 votes
22 votes
It means, for every prime number$(x)$ there exist another prime number$(y)$ where $x < y$.

Therefore S1 should be false.

S2 and S3 are true !
edited by

4 Comments

reshown by
@Arjun sir, please confirm this answer because as per ravindra babu ravula sir’s answer key the answer is S1&S3
0
0
If you are following him you can very well not come to GO. Please follow reasoning.
11
11
Thanks for the explanation sir
0
0
11 votes
11 votes
$\forall $ X from the set,
IF    {$\forall $ Z,
           IF Z divides X
            THEN either Z=X or Z=1} $\leftarrow$ X is a prime num
THEN   {$\exists $ W : W > X and
               $\forall$Z,
                  IF Z divides W
                  THEN either Z=W or Z=1}$\leftarrow$ W is a prime num

OR,
$\forall$ X, IF X is a prime num
THEN $\exists$ another prime number W >X

The above statement is not true for bounded sets like in S1 : there is no prime num greater than 97 under 100, so if we choose X=97 then we can't chose any W.
Only S2 and S3.
Ans C)
edited by

1 comment

edited by

The above statement is not true for bounded sets like in S1

The given formula is certainly not valid for the set $S_1$ But It could be valid/true for Bounded sets. 

For example, Any subset of positive integers which doesn't have a prime number in the set, will satisfy the given formula.

Set $S = \{ 4,6 \}$ will satisfy the given formula. And similarly you can make many finite sets which will satisfy the given formula. 

5
5
Answer:

Related questions

Quick search syntax
tags tag:apple
author user:martin
title title:apple
content content:apple
exclude -tag:apple
force match +apple
views views:100
score score:10
answers answers:2
is accepted isaccepted:true
is closed isclosed:true