in Analytical Aptitude retagged by
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17 votes
17 votes

Given below are two statements $1$ and $2$, and two conclusions $\text{I}$ and $\text{II}$

  • $\text{Statement 1:}$ All bacteria are microorganisms.
  • $\text{Statement 2:}$ All pathogens are microorganisms.
  • $\text{Conclusion I:}$ Some pathogens are bacteria.
  • $\text{Conclusion II:}$ All pathogens are not bacteria.

Based on the above statements and conclusions, which one of the following options is logically $\text{CORRECT}$?

  1. Only conclusion $\text{I}$ is correct
  2. Only conclusion $\text{II}$ is correct
  3. Either conclusion $\text{I}$ or $\text{II}$ is correct
  4. Neither conclusion $\text{I}$ nor $\text{II}$ is correct
in Analytical Aptitude retagged by
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4 Comments

Someone  plzz challenge this question...
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I think answer should be D: neither 1 nor 2
EXPLAINATION
Either-OR is similar to XOR gate which means both conclusions can't be true at the same time.
But in the question both conclusions can be true at same time.
So, option D): neither 1 nor 2 is correct seems most logical answer.

NOTE
conclusion 2 means :- Not every Pathogen is Bacteria. which means some pathogens can be bacteria.

Hope You Understand.

But i think marks should be awarded to all as the conclusion 2 could have different meanings.
but still option D is necessarily true.

 

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Congratulations Guys. Both answers are correct as per final answer key..

WE WON!!!
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9 Answers

7 votes
7 votes
Best answer
  • Statement 1: All bacteria are microorganisms.
  • Statement 2: All pathogens are microorganisms.
  • Conclusion I: Some pathogens are bacteria.
    Not logically correct as we can draw a Venn diagram satisfying the given statements and where pathogens and bacteria do not intersect.
  • Conclusion II: All pathogens are not bacteria.
    This statement means some pathogen is there which is not a bacteria. (Alternatively think of the statement “all students are not rich” which means “there is at least one student who is not rich”). Now, this statement is also not logically correct as we can draw a Venn diagram satisfying the given statements and having all pathogens as bacteria. 

Now we already showed that options A and B are wrong.

Option C is ambiguous in the sense that it can mean

  1. At least one conclusion is correct (does not make sense as this will automatically make at least one of options A or B correct as well)
  2. If conclusion I is not true conclusion II is true and vice versa. In other words both the conclusions cannot be false at the same time. This interpretation makes this option CORRECT.

Option D is correct as individually both the conclusions are not logically correct.

Due to the ambiguity of option C marks were given for both options C and D.

selected by
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3 Comments

hello sir marks were given to all or only who attempted this question?
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edited by

Great explanation 💯

A)Only conclusion 1 is true.

conclusion 1 is true and conclusion 2 is false 

B)Only conclusion 2 is true.

conclusion 1 is false and conclusion 2 is true.

C)Either -or     (exclusiove-or)          one of Standard option in Reasoning Questions of Indian Exams

conclusion 1 is true and conclusion 2 is false     OR

conclusion 1 is false and conclusion 2 is true.

D)neither -nor

conclusion 1 is false and conclusion 2 is false

3 Types of Reasoning- Verbal, Non-verbal, Analytical

Syllogism comes under Analytical Reasoning.  

Syllogism is solvable using propositional logic if either-or option not in Question. Syllogism Questions quite popular in competitive exams where Reasoning is asked. 

And either-or option in question makes it more challenging to solve as we can’t apply propositional logic here :(

As marks had been given for both options c) and d). If this Question had been asked in other exams, I don’t think so marks had given to option d) as well. Because c) is only correct here.

Same kind of Question asked in CLAT(2013)

Pg-157(Q- 144)   

Answer- none of these    ( either-or option not here )

https://gateoverflow.in/?qa=blob&qa_blobid=9132213716178174310

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https://gateoverflow.in/359795/gate-ece-2021-ga-question-6

Similar Question( either-or is correct)

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23 votes
23 votes

$pathogen(x)$ = x is pathogen

$bacteria(x)$ = x is bacteria

 

Conclusion I: Some pathogens are bacteria.

$\exists x ( pathogen(x) \wedge bacteria(x))$ 

this means  $pathogen \cap bacteria \neq \phi$

 

Conclusion II: All pathogens are not bacteria.

$\forall x ( pathogen(x) \rightarrow \sim bacteria(x))$

this means $pathogen \cap bacteria = \phi$

 

clearly either conclusion I or conclusion is true.


I think confusion here is in second conclusion,

if the given conclusion II were like

“Not all pathogens are bacteria”,     $\sim (\forall x ( pathogen(x) \rightarrow bacteria(x)))$

in the case i agree niether is correct answer..

 

But see the difference between given conclusion and this conclusion..

Correct me if I’m wrong!

 

36 Comments

+1 @Arjun please check
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I think you are absolutely true
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An argument has a set of statements as premises and only one conclusion. We cannot have two exclusive and exhaustive conclusions. Now had conclusion 1(Con-1), conclusion 2(Con-2) been renamed as statement 3(St-3), statement 4(St-4) respectively, in this case we could have definitely said either St-3 or St-4 is true. Note that in this case had St-3 been "A Rat is a Rodent", and St-4 been "A Rat is not a Rodent" , we could have still said  either St-3  or St-4 is true (bcoz that is a tautology anyway) but we cannot be rename them as conclusions, Con-1,Con-2 and say either Con-1 or Con-2 is true because St-1 and St-2 together don't imply Con-1 and also don't imply Con-2 in this case

Please refer to this pasted link  https://www.uky.edu/~rosdatte/phi120/lesson1a.htm#:~:text=A%20conclusion%20is%20a%20statement,conclusion%20in%20a%20single%20argument.

So Conclusion 1 is not correct because the premise is not enough to arrive at this Conclusion. Conclusion 2 is also not correct because the premise is not enough to arrive at this conclusion

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A conclusion is correct only if it makes the argument valid ie. if truth of conclusion follows from truth of premises applying principles of deduction.
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This is one of the 4 cases which we get according to the question.In this case clearly we can see that both the conclusions are correct but according to the meaning of either or Only one statement should be correct but not both.Hence C cannot be the correct answer.

This is one of the 4 cases which we get from the question.Clearly we can see that in this case both the conclusions are correct whereas according to the meaning of    ‘either or’ only one conclusion should be correct but not both.Hence C cannot be the correct answer.

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@aniketh317 and @Iash , clearly you both didn’t read my solution carefully!,

@Iash, you Venn diagram is only true for conclusion I, conclusion II is false in this case..

and lets not argue on this until the final ans key..

 

(and I’m this much sure that if they gave the answer otherwise, then I’ll definitely gonna challenge it and they’ll accept it, But I’m 100% sure ans will be C in official key)
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and why am i getting notification this late, both of you guys commented 4-7hrs ago,

30mins earlier they weren’t even visible to me,  and now I’m getting notification for those..

I think someone might have hide them earlier and reshown them now
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Hey hello there @Nikhil_dhama, you probably didn't see my comment earlier bcoz the moderator didn't approve it for a while.. I am sorry that you misunderstood my comment... By argument and all that I didn't mean your argument. Argument as in Deductive logic(I had this as one my courses) Deductive argument, Inductive argument etc...not your argument man
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Nikhil_dhama +1 Ans will be C in official

simular question was asked in Applied AI mock 8
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@aniketh317 relax bro, I’m not saying that, ik which argument you are talking about,

i meant to say, there’s not much point discussing it further, (until key is released, because we can only be sure after that)

also see the meaning I described of both the conclusion, one say that intersection is empty, other says it doesn’t empty , don’t you believe that exactly one and only one of them will be true always , either it is empty of it’s not, no matter what cases we take, either of them will always be true..

Hope you got my point this time..

 

I have also explained in my ans that what you all guys are confusing conclusion II with. read given solution again and try to understand it.

and yeah I agree everything you said, conclusion should be derived from some premises being true or false.. But irrespective of your premises, exactly one of either conclusions will definitely be true..
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In deductive logic a conclusion (say in our case conclusion-1 or conclusion-2) will be correct only if they follow from premises(Statement-1, Statement-2) which is not happening.. so both of them are incorrect. As I said, you could have mentioned -  Rat is 3 legged(conc-1), Rat is not 3 legged(conc-1) could have been given as 2 conclusions in place of what are given in the question...either conc-1 or conc-2 is true, yes that's a tautology...so true(when u are viewing them as statements)... but either conc-1 or conc-2 is correct(no this not correct, bcoz statements 1,2 neither imply conc-1,  nor imply conc-2.....)

Statements 1,2 along with Conc-1 dont form a valid argement(since conc-1 does not follow using principles of deductive logic). So is the case with conc-2
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Yes man, agree with you on the official key part man......(btw) Well your solution is very much clear and does serve the purpose of enlightening us on this that the 2 conclusions are 2 propositions st. conc-1 is negation of conc-2.. nice illustration of principles of 1st order logic...well for a while I felt this is the bastion for only pure mathematics students and theoretic computer science students.......😁😁
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Hey @Nikhi_dhama I have read your solution earlier as well, my only point was

In the question in conclusion 2 it is given that All pathogens are not bacteria.What I understand from this is there might be some pathogens which are not bacteria. Hence accordingly I drew my Venn diagram.

I am not sure whether we can write it as  $\forall x ( pathogen(x) \rightarrow \sim bacteria(x))$
because what I feel is this means Every x which is a pathogen is not bacteria.Correct me if I have missed anything?

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Both the conclusions are contradictory

If you consider I correct then two is automatically false

If you consider II correct then one is automatically false

Both true and both false can never be the case

Therefore atleast one of them has to be correct
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edited by

Considering the 2nd statement ..  ”All pathogens are not bacteria” 

by this i  mean  there exist some pathogens that is not bacteria 

this is similar to a statement like “ALL students are not toppers”

by  this we mean there exist some student who is not topper ,do we mean that for every  element in the universe if it’s a student then it’s not the topper .no ri8

considering another example 

”All chefs are not masterchefs”

by this i mean there exist some chef who is not a masterchef

by this we don’t mean  for every person in the universe if it’s a chef then he is not a masterchef .

considering another example

ALL STONES ARE NOT WORTHY

THIS MEANS  ATLEAST THERE EXIST SOME STONE HICH IS NOT WORTHY

IT DOESN’T MEANS..FOR EVERY OBJECT IN THE UNIVERSE IF ITS A STONE THEN IT’S NOT WORTHY

 

 

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Considering the 2nd statement ..  ”All pathogens are not bacteria” 

by this i  mean  there exist some pathogens that is not bacteria 

this is similar to a statement like “ALL students are not toppers”

by  this we mean there exist some student who is not topper ,do we mean that for every  element in the universe if it’s a student then it’s not the topper .no ri8

considering another example 

”All chefs are not masterchefs”

by this i mean there exist some chef who is not a masterchef

by this we don’t mean  for every person in the universe if it’s a chef then he is not a masterchef .

considering another example

ALL STONES ARE NOT WORTHY

THIS MEANS  ATLEAST THERE EXIST SOME STONE HICH IS NOT WORTHY

IT DOESN’T MEANS..FOR EVERY OBJECT IN THE UNIVERSE IF ITS A STONE THEN IT’S NOT WORTHY

 

 

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$P(x,y)$ : student x marked the answer y

$U(x)$ : x is ready to understand this problem

“All students who marked the answer D are not ready to understand this problem”

$ \forall x(\ P(x,D) \rightarrow \sim U(x)\ )$   :p
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@Nikhil_dhama xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
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@debmalyaSEN 

You said

”All chefs are not masterchefs”

by this i mean there exist some chef who is not a masterchef

by this we don’t mean  for every person in the universe if it’s a chef then he is not a masterchef .

In the question

  • Conclusion I:Conclusion I: Some pathogens are bacteria.
  • Conclusion II:Conclusion II: All pathogens are not bacteria

There can be two possible cases

Consider Case 1

 

Where bacteria and pathogen are both subsets of microorganisms &

 Bacteria ∩ Pathogen = null

For this case 

 Conclusion I fails but conclusion II passes 

So we rule out Option A & D

Consider Case 2

Where bacteria and pathogen are both subsets of microorganisms &

 Bacteria ∩ Pathogen = not null

For this case 

 Conclusion I passes but conclusion II fails

So we rule out Option B now

Now the question doesn’t say if its OR or XOR

and only conclusive logic we can derive is XOR 

So C satisfies either one of the conditions at a time

It can never satisfy both or none cause its like 

Schrödinger's cat experiment

The cat can either be alive or dead

It cannot be both dead or alive

Nor it cannot be both not dead not alive

 

 

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all bacteria are micro organism 

all  pathogen are micro organism .

in the question it is given which of the option is “LOGICALLY CORRECT “

NOT “MAY BE LOGICALLY CORRECT” FOR LOGICALLY CORRECT U HAVE TO CONSIDER ALL SITUATIONS .U R CONSIDERING ONLY TWO.

FOR THE XOR PART

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2130327/does-either-make-an-exclusive-or 

CONC1    IS” SOME A  ARE B”

CONC 2   IS “ALL A ARE NOT B “

NOW CONSIDER SETS A AND B

A HAVING 10 ELEMENTS 

B HAVING 10 ELEMENTS 

AND

A AND B  HAVING 5 ELEMENTS  COMMON (SO SOME ARE B) RI8? COMMON ELEMENTS

ALL A ARE NOT  B – OBVIOUSLY THERE EXIST SOME A WHICH IS NOT  B ...RI8?

NOW XOR OF THEM WILL YIELD 0

NOW FOR SATISFACTION AGAIN CONSIDER A CASE 

WHERE B  IS SUSBET OF  A

  ….CONC 1 IS CORRECT

…...CONC  2   AGAIN IS CORRECT COZ THERE EXIST SOME A WHICH IS NOT IN A ,AS A IS THE SUPERSET .

AGAIN XOR GIVES 0

U HAVE IGNORED  BOTH CASES IN YOUR ANSWER

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@demalyaSEN 

XOR won’t give 0

as xor is A∩B’ + A’∩B

 

 

 

 

 

Now for your second case Both conclusions hold true you’re right

But that again proves why D is wrong :D

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Well what the proponents of option c say is absolutely right........since at least one of Conc-1 or Conc-2 has to be true for sure. The only issue is that a Conclusion of an argument is said to be correct(nothing to do with truthfulness of the  conclusion bcoz there can be a whole lot of other ways to conclude about the veracity of a statement ) only if it makes a deductive argument valid.well in this case note that the argument need not not even be sound( we say this when the implication is true but the premises not true)...., if it is inferrable from the argument alone....

For ex

St1: No mammal lays an egg

St2: Snake is not a mammal

Con1: Snake lays eggs

Con2 : Snake doesnot lay egg.

Now here it is quite obvious that one of Con1, Con2 has to be true since Con2 is negation of Con1, and it very much known to all that Con1 is true and Con2 is false.

(But)

Con1 (CONCLUSION -1, note the word conclusion )  is an incorrect conclusion of the argument just bcoz Con1 doesn't make the argument valid. Well here Con1 is being said to be an incorrect conclusion of the argument despite the fact that Con1 is true, just for the  reason that it doesnot make the argument valid

Similarly,

Con2(Conclusion-2) is an incorrect conclusion of the argument just bcoz Con2 doesnot make the argument valid.

Well the only thing is that correctness of a Conclusion is being confused with truthfulness of a conclusion and it is this that I'm trying to point out. Correctness of conclusion is spoken of in the context of an inductive argument / deductive argument.
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@aniketh317

I agree

Being valid is not equal to truthfulness of the conclusion

But consider this

Take any single case like pathogen and bacteria are subsets superset or disjoint sets

Atleast One of the conclusions will be valid and true in that case.

A conclusion might be valid in one case but might not be in other

That is the basis of this question

You don’t need validity of conclusion in all cases

But take any case I guarantee you one of the conclusion will stay valid

The word Either makes a lot of difference

A coming to other options

They don’t even come close to being valid

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bro am not talking about xor of sets am talking about xor of conclusions which is either T or Falways
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@debmalyaSEN Please elaborate

tbh lets wait for answer key
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The Con1, Con2  mentioned in the question are propositions whose truth values have been established by biologists/zoologists or who so ever is concerned with the taxonomy of microorganisms. Frankly speaking, nothing to do with cases and all that too 😆😆... The whole thing is about inferring the truth value of a conclusion from the given premises. Conclusion is correct in an argument only if I can infer that the truth value of the conclusion is true from the statements mentioned in the premises.

 

On a side note, in the stated answer:

All pathogens are not bacteria in English should have been :

Ǝx(pathogen(x) and not(bacteria(x))

Well the proposition that is given in the main answer translates to :

No pathogen is a bacteria.

Well I know that this is not a game changer 🤣🤣 mentioning it just for the sake of it..
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bhai in simple words when  bacteria set and  pathogen set is intersecting both conclusions are true ,either or demands for only one  conclusion to be  true  but n this case both r true  busting the  argument for either or .conclusion 1 is noobish to understand .Conclusion 2 says all pathogens are not bacteria bro that is obvious .,all b acteria are not  pathogens and all pathogens are not bacteria ..am considering the intersection case only .please read through the comments u will get it .Don’t reverse engineer your answer
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@debmalyaSEN why are you considering Either as XOR?

It can also mean OR

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bro i have provided u links .still am saying again ..

either or means one  condition will be true every time

.it is false if both conditions  are true

or

both conditions are false.

in  a race either you or i can win  

it means 

you win i lose

you lose i win

---not ----

you lose i lose

you win i win

coz only a single winner is required .

what you are saying is .. (OR)   NOT ( EITHER OR)

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Another thing 🤣🤣

Ǝx(pathogen(x) and not(bacteria(x))

and

Ǝx(pathogen(x) and (bacteria(x))

are 2 propositions which don't assume False truth value simultaneously, only if we are convinced that the domain of discourse(the set of micro-organisms) is a non--empty set... which is not given in this stupid question anyway... so it seems to me that  there are hell lot of ways to challenge for D 🤣🤣🤣
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Could you make a detailed pdf that can be used to challenge the answer key. All can refer and make changes and challenge it along with any references if any  

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@arjun sir please provide a valid solution so that we can challenge this ques
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  1. key providers requested to kindly update the solution for this one to neither, nor.
  1. Graph theory Articulation point one too
  2. And Sender Window size problem range extended to (50-52)

Requesting key providers to kindly incorporate the afore-mentioned changes

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aniketh its already done on GO key
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Ok thanks...
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edited by

Why I think answer is D?

In such type of questions when a conclusion is given based on some statements then for that conclusion to be correct it must be true for all the cases.

But in this question we have a counter example where conclusion 1 fails and we also have a counter example where conclusion 2 fails , so we can say neither of the conclusion is correct because they are not true for all the cases.

Now if you take all the cases then you will see that either conclusion 1 is followed or conclusion 2 is followed but we can’t say that “either conclusion I or II is correct” because for any conclusion to be correct it must be true for all the cases. So option C is wrong.

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17 votes
17 votes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All we need to refute a conclusion is a counter example in which both the statements are correct but conclusion is false. 

Conclusion 1 states that some pathogens are bacteria, but the first venn diagram refutes that.

Conclusion 2 states that all pathogens are not bacteria, but the second venn diagram is against that.

Both the venn diagram follow from the original statements, so we have shown a counter example to both conclusions so option D is correct.

Option C is wrong as it doesn’t say by any means that both statements can’t be correct at the same time.

edited by

4 Comments

Please see the venn diagram

We don’t know for sure which venn diagram is referred

Both the conclusions are contradictory

If you consider I correct then two is automatically false

If you consider II correct then one is automatically false

Both true and both false can never be the case

Therefore atleast one of them has to be correct
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Dude... lol indeed
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I have solved this problem by interpreting it as a syllogism question if you use standard procedures from Arun Sharma books the answer should be D, but if you interpret it as a First-order logic question one can see why option c could be possible. The answer will depend on how you interpret the question, I don't think option D is wrong if you see it as a syllogism question.
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11 votes
11 votes

Here is the question explained with another example which will hopefully help people think freshly without thinking about the actual question.

Statement 1 – all rats who lost one of their limbs are 3 limb mammals
Statement 2 – all rodents who lost one of their limbs are 3 limb mammals
Conclusion 1 – some 3 limb rats are 3 limb rodents
Conclusion 2 – all 3 limb rats are not 3 limb rodents

Cases possible from given statements 1 and 2:

Now,

1. can we conclude that SOME 3 limb rats are 3 limb rodents? No. Counter example is figure 1

2. can we conclude that ALL 3 limb rats are not 3 limb rodents? No. Counter example is all other figures.

So neither conclusion 1, nor 2 is correct. There is no ambiguity here right? because neither of the conclusions were derivable from the premises.

                           -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now why is – either conclusion 1 or 2 is correct – wrong? The answer lies in interpretation of the question (semantics), as well as the definition of a conclusion.

Saying that either conclusion 1 or conclusion 2 is correct implies that one of the above conclusions can possibly be deduced from the statements, meaning either we were able to deduce that some 3 limb rats are 3 limb rodents, or we were able to deduce that all 3 limb rats aren’t 3 limb rodents.

Definition of the conditional statement from Rosen which mentions what is called a “conclusion” : 

Let p and q be propositions. The conditional statement p → q is the proposition “if p, then
q.” The conditional statement p → q is false when p is true and q is false, and true otherwise.
In the conditional statement p → q, p is called the hypothesis (or antecedent or premise)
and q is called the conclusion (or consequence).

Another definition from https://www.britannica.com/topic/logic#ref535920

“An inference is a rule-governed step from one or more propositions, called premises, to a new proposition, usually called the conclusion. An inference rule is said to be valid, or deductively valid, if it is necessarily truth-preserving. That is, in any conceivable case in which the premises are true, the conclusion yielded by the inference rule will also be true.”

Stmt 1 AND Stmt 2 → Conclusion 1 stmt ?   – False

Stmt 1 AND Stmt 2 → Conclusion 2 stmt ?   – False

But do the individual statements of conclusion 1 and conclusion 2 together form a tautology? Definitely.

Although here is where we need to differentiate between making a whole new proposition by interpreting option c as “stmt C1 OR stmt C2”, and what the logical english interpretation of the options should be, i.e. either conclusion one can be deduced or conlusion two can be deduced. (a conclusion being correct implies that the conclusion CAN be deduced. Refer the definitions above).

But we clearly can’t deduce either of the conclusions from the given premises. There is a clear difference between saying “one of the conclusion holds and is correctly deduced” vs “one of the statements of both the conclusions has to be true”, the 2nd one being an assertion, which doesn’t take into account what a conclusion is! and simply considers both conclusions as statements OR’ed together, which we shouldn’t implicitly assume.

 

I feel like my argument is sound, and I’m not dismissing the fact that the other way of interpretation of the question may have some merit to it. (don’t come after me @Nikhil_dhama, blame the english language), but either option D should be correct, or both option C and D should get marks. The case where only option C is correct is clearly wrong.

                                            ---------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT 1: As pointed out by @debmalya, statement of conclusion 2 “All pathogens are not bacteria” is probably being wrongly interpreted by everyone.
For example when we say that “All students are not toppers”, we don’t mean to say that there are no students who are toppers. Instead we mean that most of the students are not toppers.

Therefore the venn diagram of conclusion 1 and conclusion 2 both are actually identical, and they are not mutually exclusive, i.e one is not the negation of the other, and therefore both of them together in fact dont form a tautology, making option D the only correct choice.

edited by

4 Comments

@Arjun sir you said 99% option C will be correct. I want to challenge this ques could you please provide a valid solution that can be used in this case.
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If the answer key gives C as correct, won’t that be at the time the challenge time window is closed? If so, how will you re-challenge the question?

The only fair outcome is if both C and D are marked correct by the committee. One can only hope that will be the case.
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  1. Only conclusion I is correct
  2. Only conclusion II is correct
  3. Either conclusion I or II is correct  – does this imply options A and B and if so one can straight away ignore them and mark this or option D
  4. Neither conclusion I nor II is correct

The bold marked line itself is a clue as to what the question setter would have had in his mind. I can only think that someone copied this question from somewhere and gave a different interpretation :) More discussion here: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4034468/interpreting-english-either-or-when-approaching-logical-deductions-doubt

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